![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
So...as if anyone wants to hear more, but I feel like I have a unique perspective on the whole thing.
First, I cut tag. If I don't cut tag a spoiler, it's because it was an accident. After discussing spoilers for a while, it can become such common knowledge that you slip up. Accidents happen, apologies are made...just don't then lay the guilt trip, because that I resent like hell.
I think that's the big problem in fandom. When there's an accident, inevitably someone lays a damn big guilt trip, which breeds resentment. Accidents happen. People apologize or don't. Whatever.
But here's the thing. It goes overboard. We're talking, to such an extent that even when the episode has aired and it's a week later, there's still fear that someone, somewhere hasn't seen it and OMG! I can't spoil anyone!
![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
paperbkryter has the misfortune of living in an area where she gets continually screwed regarding Smallville. She's a day later than the rest of us. I respect her space, because regardless of being spoiled, she hasn't *seen* the episode yet, and she avoids LJ like crazy for that day of difference.
huffytcs lives in England and doesn't get to see the show until months after we in the U.S. I don't know *how*, as a mod at K-Site, she goes without being horribly spoiled for the eps, even if she has read spoilers (seeing and reading are just two vastly different things).
I've been friends with them from day one (meaning way back when I started in the fandom). I respect them. I do my utmost to not ruin them for the show. But I also know that they're not going to try and control my enjoyment of the show by controlling how I post in my LJ.
That's what it comes down to. Mutual respect that doesn't go overboard with a sense of entitlement. Don't want to be spoiled? Fine. Don't want to risk reading any spoilers? Fine. It's okay. But just keep in mind that no two people view things the same. I have 115 people on my friends list. I know that can be relatively small in comparison to others. I hope the people on my friends list respect me enough to understand that I refuse to live my life to the extent that I cannot enjoy a show because I'm having to fulfill their needs. They wouldn't want me to grow that annoyed, nor would I want them to. I wouldn't feel slighted in the least if someone let me know (or just posted a general message in their LJ) that "Hey, I'm doing a mass defriending right now, and it's because I've decided that I don't want to be spoiled and the easiest way is to tailor my friends list." I'm all for courtesy, but it's just a courtesy. I don't pretend to be personal close friends with all 115 of my friends list. Some of those 115, it would hurt. But I'd get over it. Because in reality, there has to be give and take. 50-50. Accepting responsibility comes from both sides, and if you absolutely can't be spoiled for anything, tailor your friends list in such a way.
This is the internet. This is fandom. After a while, I resent having to cut everything I say about a show after it's aired. I do cut the initial post for one reason...length. Cut tagging isn't a hardship, but it's a bloomin' pain in the butt to have to think things through twice for a portion of the fandom that do not have to think about it at all. Heck, I remember the days when cut tagging was NOT the standard in LJ. You mean there was a day? *gasp* There was. I *never* got yelled at for not cut tagging in the beginning. Say what you will, but the whole cut tagging issue in fandom is kind of new. We're used to things like message boards where there are spoiler sections. LJ is a different environment and has had to evolve over time to encompass the fandom environment. It has thrived here, but it also works without the benefit of moderators. So people try and mod things for the group without agreement from everyone on what the rules should be.
The only "rule" of LJ that everyone can seem to agree on is that each LJ is your own environment and the only place you can have control, so what you say, goes, in your own LJ.
Anyway, I say, since this issue is repeatedly hashed out, and hashed out, and the same issue about actors comes up again and again, or about media advertisements, that we should all go to our corners and chill. Agree to disagree. Make note of who disagrees with you, and move on, because that way you can avoid future disagreement (meaning, if you have a policy of no spoilers or tons of spoilers, and someone repeatedly spoils you/repeatedly fusses at you for spoiling them...defriend).
ETA: One qualifier for this post.
THE major source of contention about spoilers for the past year has been what I like to call the "No Doubt" spoilers. I'm naming them such because someone in the midst of all the current spoiler kerfluffle said "when in doubt, cut tag". Frankly, this is a great way to look at it.
Except for the doubt part. Because you see...there are some things for which some people have No Doubt that it's not a spoiler, whereas to others, it is.
Yes, it's the "Harri Harrison will be on Smallville this fall" spoiler. No one has a clue who Harri Harrison is, because he doesn't appear on IMDB, he's not got a name, or they do know who he is because of that starring turn in "The Devil Made Me Do It" on Broadway (or maybe it was on cable, or a big budget thriller). Anyway. The problem is that there is a gray area in spoilers. Very gray areas. And the fandom tends to split in two on this issue, because there are no right or wrong answers. Really. There aren't. I have No Doubt that saying an actor's name in connection with a TV show is not a spoiler. Why? Because of what constitutes a spoiler before the advent of internet fandom. Before each of you got involved in internet fandom, what were common things to be heard around through magazines or on entertainment shows? The vaguest of mentions...things like "guess who's joining the cast". I'm going to risk my life here but...Dennis Farina joining the cast of Law & Order has been widely publicized in commercials during the Olympics. We know *nothing* about the role he'll play, though. So...how does that spoil anything? (And I've heard the arguments ad nauseum both ways...I'm not going to be dissuaded on that one.)
I personally don't talk about ANYTHING to do with casting outside of spoiler cut tags because I don't want to be villified. Yeah. Think about that one from my perspective. Villified. Is that worth it in a fandom? Getting mad at someone over Dennis Farina?
First, I cut tag. If I don't cut tag a spoiler, it's because it was an accident. After discussing spoilers for a while, it can become such common knowledge that you slip up. Accidents happen, apologies are made...just don't then lay the guilt trip, because that I resent like hell.
I think that's the big problem in fandom. When there's an accident, inevitably someone lays a damn big guilt trip, which breeds resentment. Accidents happen. People apologize or don't. Whatever.
But here's the thing. It goes overboard. We're talking, to such an extent that even when the episode has aired and it's a week later, there's still fear that someone, somewhere hasn't seen it and OMG! I can't spoil anyone!
paperbkryter has the misfortune of living in an area where she gets continually screwed regarding Smallville. She's a day later than the rest of us. I respect her space, because regardless of being spoiled, she hasn't *seen* the episode yet, and she avoids LJ like crazy for that day of difference. huffytcs lives in England and doesn't get to see the show until months after we in the U.S. I don't know *how*, as a mod at K-Site, she goes without being horribly spoiled for the eps, even if she has read spoilers (seeing and reading are just two vastly different things). I've been friends with them from day one (meaning way back when I started in the fandom). I respect them. I do my utmost to not ruin them for the show. But I also know that they're not going to try and control my enjoyment of the show by controlling how I post in my LJ.
That's what it comes down to. Mutual respect that doesn't go overboard with a sense of entitlement. Don't want to be spoiled? Fine. Don't want to risk reading any spoilers? Fine. It's okay. But just keep in mind that no two people view things the same. I have 115 people on my friends list. I know that can be relatively small in comparison to others. I hope the people on my friends list respect me enough to understand that I refuse to live my life to the extent that I cannot enjoy a show because I'm having to fulfill their needs. They wouldn't want me to grow that annoyed, nor would I want them to. I wouldn't feel slighted in the least if someone let me know (or just posted a general message in their LJ) that "Hey, I'm doing a mass defriending right now, and it's because I've decided that I don't want to be spoiled and the easiest way is to tailor my friends list." I'm all for courtesy, but it's just a courtesy. I don't pretend to be personal close friends with all 115 of my friends list. Some of those 115, it would hurt. But I'd get over it. Because in reality, there has to be give and take. 50-50. Accepting responsibility comes from both sides, and if you absolutely can't be spoiled for anything, tailor your friends list in such a way.
This is the internet. This is fandom. After a while, I resent having to cut everything I say about a show after it's aired. I do cut the initial post for one reason...length. Cut tagging isn't a hardship, but it's a bloomin' pain in the butt to have to think things through twice for a portion of the fandom that do not have to think about it at all. Heck, I remember the days when cut tagging was NOT the standard in LJ. You mean there was a day? *gasp* There was. I *never* got yelled at for not cut tagging in the beginning. Say what you will, but the whole cut tagging issue in fandom is kind of new. We're used to things like message boards where there are spoiler sections. LJ is a different environment and has had to evolve over time to encompass the fandom environment. It has thrived here, but it also works without the benefit of moderators. So people try and mod things for the group without agreement from everyone on what the rules should be.
The only "rule" of LJ that everyone can seem to agree on is that each LJ is your own environment and the only place you can have control, so what you say, goes, in your own LJ.
Anyway, I say, since this issue is repeatedly hashed out, and hashed out, and the same issue about actors comes up again and again, or about media advertisements, that we should all go to our corners and chill. Agree to disagree. Make note of who disagrees with you, and move on, because that way you can avoid future disagreement (meaning, if you have a policy of no spoilers or tons of spoilers, and someone repeatedly spoils you/repeatedly fusses at you for spoiling them...defriend).
ETA: One qualifier for this post.
THE major source of contention about spoilers for the past year has been what I like to call the "No Doubt" spoilers. I'm naming them such because someone in the midst of all the current spoiler kerfluffle said "when in doubt, cut tag". Frankly, this is a great way to look at it.
Except for the doubt part. Because you see...there are some things for which some people have No Doubt that it's not a spoiler, whereas to others, it is.
Yes, it's the "Harri Harrison will be on Smallville this fall" spoiler. No one has a clue who Harri Harrison is, because he doesn't appear on IMDB, he's not got a name, or they do know who he is because of that starring turn in "The Devil Made Me Do It" on Broadway (or maybe it was on cable, or a big budget thriller). Anyway. The problem is that there is a gray area in spoilers. Very gray areas. And the fandom tends to split in two on this issue, because there are no right or wrong answers. Really. There aren't. I have No Doubt that saying an actor's name in connection with a TV show is not a spoiler. Why? Because of what constitutes a spoiler before the advent of internet fandom. Before each of you got involved in internet fandom, what were common things to be heard around through magazines or on entertainment shows? The vaguest of mentions...things like "guess who's joining the cast". I'm going to risk my life here but...Dennis Farina joining the cast of Law & Order has been widely publicized in commercials during the Olympics. We know *nothing* about the role he'll play, though. So...how does that spoil anything? (And I've heard the arguments ad nauseum both ways...I'm not going to be dissuaded on that one.)
I personally don't talk about ANYTHING to do with casting outside of spoiler cut tags because I don't want to be villified. Yeah. Think about that one from my perspective. Villified. Is that worth it in a fandom? Getting mad at someone over Dennis Farina?